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i told you i was trouble

He/Him. Bisexual. Autistic. British. LGBT+ Inclusionist. Cringey Weeb.
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This is a snapshot view of original blog at werewolf-cuddles.tumblr.com

Toplist Points 41 == Toplist Rank [50.000+ (bad)]

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“Bitch can’t even swim…”

7 hours ago

“Bitch can’t even swim…”

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Burning Rose by Sachielchen

7 hours ago

Burning Rose by Sachielchen

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The best sisters!

7 hours ago

The best sisters!

At the end of May comes the gay

7 hours ago

At the end of May comes the gay

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arkham ivy is my fave  also freckles

7 hours ago

arkham ivy is my fave also freckles

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Poison Ivy speedpaint, because I love her colours :D but anatomy is so screwed here, lol. It was speedpaint, ok?

7 hours ago

Poison Ivy speedpaint, because I love her colours :D but anatomy is so screwed here, lol. It was speedpaint, ok?

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Suicide Squad Harley Quinn skin for Arkham City
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7 hours ago

Suicide Squad Harley Quinn skin for Arkham City

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Harley Quinn  Arkham Asylum to Arkham Knight
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7 hours ago

Harley Quinn Arkham Asylum to Arkham Knight

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made some icons out of the cool screencaps i’ve been getting from Arkham City!  Feel free to use but please like/or reblog if...
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7 hours ago

made some icons out of the cool screencaps i’ve been getting from Arkham City! Feel free to use but please like/or reblog if...

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Anyone ever tell you that you’re full of surprises?
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7 hours ago

Anyone ever tell you that you’re full of surprises?

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“See? It hurts, don’t it?”   arkham city - harley quinn’s revenge
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7 hours ago

“See? It hurts, don’t it?” arkham city - harley quinn’s revenge

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Harley Quinn lockscreen’s  If used please reblog
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7 hours ago

Harley Quinn lockscreen’s If used please reblog

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Arkham Games Harley by OZartwork and HedwinZ89  Which one is your favorite?

7 hours ago

Arkham Games Harley by OZartwork and HedwinZ89 Which one is your favorite?

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Batman: Arkham Video Game Series
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7 hours ago

Batman: Arkham Video Game Series

Batman: Alfred, it was the Joker. He's behind all of this.

Alfred: well who the fuck else would it be

7 hours ago

Batman: Alfred, it was the Joker. He's behind all of this. Alfred: well who the fuck else would it be

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With all the events going on recently I think it’s time to post this image againbc i’m tired of this shit 

8 hours ago

With all the events going on recently I think it’s time to post this image againbc i’m tired of this shit 

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Source: SnapCube (Real-Time Fandub Games - Sonic Adventure 2 (Part 2))

8 hours ago

Source: SnapCube (Real-Time Fandub Games - Sonic Adventure 2 (Part 2))

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We were all so wrapped up in dad jokes that we forgot grandpa humor

10 hours ago

We were all so wrapped up in dad jokes that we forgot grandpa humor

Looting and destroying innocent citizen’s homes and workplaces is never justifiable nor right.

10 hours ago

Looting and destroying innocent citizen's homes and workplaces is never justifiable nor right.

10 hours ago

I wonder what P Celestia would look like in a Celestia L cosplay, and vice versa.

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Imagine if the garbage celebs who made that “Imagine” song cover had put half as much effort into their singing as these pro...

10 hours ago

Imagine if the garbage celebs who made that “Imagine” song cover had put half as much effort into their singing as these pro...

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Harley Quinn finally destroys The Joker after years of his abuse Bonus:
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11 hours ago

Harley Quinn finally destroys The Joker after years of his abuse Bonus:

it’s pride month bitches

11 hours ago

it’s pride month bitches

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“Homer Goes To College” // Season 5, Episode 3
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11 hours ago

“Homer Goes To College” // Season 5, Episode 3

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곰말리/ くままんさんはTwitterを使っています 「[ほのえり]스쿠스타 우는 에리 달래주는 호노카 호노카는 카드 없길래 사복 암거나 입힘 https://t.co/i7Zx0vMiXk」 / Twitter

12 hours ago

곰말리/ くままんさんはTwitterを使っています 「[ほのえり]스쿠스타 우는 에리 달래주는 호노카 호노카는 카드 없길래 사복 암거나 입힘 https://t.co/i7Zx0vMiXk」 / Twitter

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Ok but Rob Liefeld now draws better than rcdart, and much better than he used to  because unlike rcdart he actually took the...

12 hours ago

Ok but Rob Liefeld now draws better than rcdart, and much better than he used to because unlike rcdart he actually took the...

so, i’m guessing what happened with the Komaru icons is that tumblr’s algorithm mistook one of the icons for hentai. the icon in question was a cropped version of this image.

12 hours ago

so, i’m guessing what happened with the Komaru icons is that tumblr’s algorithm mistook one of the icons for hentai. the icon in...

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Anonymous asked: “komaru naegi icons for her birthday maybe? pastel blue or pink is preferred for color.. thank you, miki!!” ...
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12 hours ago

Anonymous asked: “komaru naegi icons for her birthday maybe? pastel blue or pink is preferred for color.. thank you, miki!!” ...

every time I see more of the ‘ao3 is evil’ crap circulating I think, ‘well, tumblr is evil too and I don’t see you stop using it’

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think the real complaint isn’t that AO3 hosts “evil” content, it’s that it doesn’t allow harassment/dogpiling of “evil” creators as easily as Tumblr. Abuse won’t remove or even re-tag a work except in a handful of very specific cases, but they will suspend or ban users for harassment, including filing repeated unfounded Abuse reports. Authors also have at least some ability to screen/block comments on works, and there’s no direct messaging system outside of commenting on works through which to pursue harassment. You can follow a creator but you can’t block them (much less encourage others to do the same).Tumblr, by contrast, generally ignores any abuse report that doesn’t involve the DMCA, and aggressive anons can and have driven bloggers off the site entirely. The fact that the same tactics are used by social justice bloggers and neo-Nazis (for instance) doesn’t matter – they’re the affordances of the site, by accident or design, and an entire fannish generation have gotten very used to performing their fannish (and moral) identity in this fashion. (I thinks it’s relevant that AO3 was designed by fandom’s LJ generation and in some respect mirrors the affordances of LJ circa 2010. Tumblr is a very different site and that, moreso than age differences, seems to be at the root of this – though of course age intersect with site experience in a non-trivial way.)

ding ding ding ding.

Ao3 requires you to police your own consumption of content.  Ao3 won’t let you destroy someone’s online presence simply because you don’t like it.   Ao3 won’t let you impose your own morality on other without cause.If you have issues with this, and the fact that Ao3 requires you to have responsibility and agency,  then you seriously need to sit down and have a damned good long hard look at yourself.

The question I usually fail to see being answered when people bitch about the content on AO3 is - so who gets to decide?

You? Me? A committee of my friends? Of yours? Of those who have the most kudos? Of those who have no interest in fandom, but want to protect other people from dangerous content, whatever it may be? Who gets that power, and how long will they have it?

Who are you comfortable with giving the power of regulating all the content? What happens in grey areas? What happens when something you like isn’t liked by the Decider? Is there an appeal? Who gets to make the arguments for and against something?

The world is complex and there are no easy answers.

The impossibility of creating a censorship board that curates based on content is a great reason why those things don’t exist, and shouldn’t.

Certain people are screaming that AO3 is bad because it’s not a “safe space.” The real problem they have, though, is that AO3 was created to be a safe space - for writers. And it does a pretty good job of that. It was designed to be a place where writers are safe from arbitrary content rule changes, random and unwarned deletions, and abuse-report abuse (which is common on ff.net). The Four Big Warnings + CNTW system is beautiful in its fairness and simplicity.

Antis can’t take control of it. And because control-freakdom is at the heart of their “movement,” this drives them into frenzies. Good. It motivated me to dig a little deeper into my pocket to donate on the last drive. For all the pleasure AO3 has given me over the years, that’s money well spent.

The real problem they have, though, is that AO3 was created to be a safe space - for writers. 

Preach it loud and hard!

I’m a member of the LJ generation, and when I first came to Tumblr (grudgingly and out of desperation, I might add, since it tragically seems to be the only place to really connect with other fandom peeps) I was horrified at how people here had established this sort of fucked up bully culture, where nobody is responsible for monitoring their own consumption, and rather they expect everyone else to custom tailor content to the whims and desires of the Shrieking Banshee Masses. And woe be to the person who doesn’t bend and break! “I’m going to bully you while accusing you and your Big Mean Poopie Content of being the actual bully, so I can hopefully distract you and others from realizing I’m being a royal intrusive asshat who failed Astronomy 101 b/c I clearly believe the world revolves around me.”

The irony here is that this in itself is an abuse tactic - victim blaming with a side of gaslighting. Pot, meet kettle.

And it’s the exact same mentality that drives right-wing lunatics to kick up a fuss about the existence of icky cootie gay people in media because we need to “protect family values”, or who take to screeching at Starbucks because their particular religious symbolism isn’t portrayed on the winter holiday cups and OMG WAR ON CHRISTMAS, STARBUCKS STOP OPPRESSING ME BY NOT CATERING TO MY PERSONAL TASTE.

The mentality is one and the same - “Cater to ME ME ME or FACE MY DIVINE WRATH even if it means taking away other people’s freedom!” while hiding behind a flimsy-ass shield of faux righteous anger.  

And when these bozos find an environment or situation where they’re unable or not allowed to bully people into silence and submission, they stomp their feet and pitch a tantrum and claim that they’re the ones being oppressed. Identical shit, different pile, and it’s the exact same infantile, schoolyard rubbish no matter which side it’s coming from.

This was a really interesting read. The last poster in particular but all of it.

Okay, so I find the history behind this discussion really interesting, because there are two things that stand out to me. One is the thought AO3′s culture is equivalent to LJ circa 2010. This is almost true, except you actually have to go back further. Ao3 and Dreamwidth are both specifically trying to recreate the fan culture of Livejournal from 1999-2007, and I can say that with some authority because A) I was there (olllld) and B) both were founded in 2008/09 as a direct response to the shit happening on LiveJournal and Fanlib. The other thing is the idea that anon-harassment culture started with Tumblr. Because, kiddos, did it ever not. Tumblr is very much Fanfiction.net circa 1998-forward. (That’s right, FF.N was basically always awful.) But how we got from there to here is actually really interesting And tangly. And long.

Up to the late 1990s, fan communities were often small and decentralized because there was a huge fear that fans would be targeted by content creators if they drew too much attention. Since several authors (Anne Rice, Mercedes Lackey, Anne McCaffery) actually DID issue cease&desists to fan creators, it’s kind of understandable where the fear came from. It’s also why you still see fanfic floating around with disclaimers, something young!tumblr loves to mock.

Harry Potter changed *everything*. Like, I really can’t emphasize how much. Fanfiction was always there, being shared on email lists or privately hosted or literally mailed cross country. But Harry Potter hit BIG in 1997. It had a massive crossover appeal that hadn’t been seen since probably the original Star Trek, and the baby Internet was all. over. it. If you weren’t there, imagine Twilight. But bigger. And J.K. Rowling stood out from other creators by condoning fanfiction in her very early interviews. Not to mention there was a lot of down time between books and, as you might know, the fans do not do well unpoliced. 

This led to, I’m not kidding, an explosion of sites like FF.N. I don’t think a lot of younger users get how revolutionary AO3 is: not just because it created a safe space, but because of how much it’s done to centralize fanfiction on the internet. We used to get our fix through webrings and e-serves, so in the late 90s/early 00s we thought nothing of having dozens of scattered fanfic sites.

At the same time, the Digital Millennium Copywrite Act was coming down. The legality of fanworks was getting more and more complex. And no one knew how to handle these questions, because they had literally never come up before. When it was just authors going after individual fans, things usually went quick and brutal. Fans had neither the money nor the legal teams to stand up to creators, even if (as we were slowly beginning to realize) we had a strong case to create and share fanworks. So, if you got hit with a takedown notice, you took your fic down and laid low, hoping to avoid any further interest. But now the legal burden was shifting from individuals to well-funded corporations. Fanfic.net and LJ didn’t want to shut down their fan-contributors, who were creating a huge stream of free content and bringing in advertising revenue. At the same time, they didn’t want to get shut down by a lawsuit if Lucasfilm found Han/Chewie smut and decided to go after the real money. The next 10 years were basically all of us – authors, fan creators, website executives – stumbling through brand new legal territory and figuring it out by trial and error. FF.N erred on the side of caution by becoming more and more restrictive. They shut down the entire Anne McCaffrey and Anne Rice sections, and eventually banned “pornographic” fanfiction from the site in an attempt to cover their legal rears. (It backfired, unsurprisingly, because say what you will about fandom: we like our smut. Also, FF.N had other issues that we won’t get into here will discuss shortly.) A bunch of other sites folded or waned in popularity as fandom wars divided the fan population. Authors scattered to the winds, and a lot of them ended up on LJ. LJ started out very user friendly. We’re talking an open source code, an almost entirely volunteer staff. Even after it was sold to 6Apart in 2005, LJ was pretty permissive. A lot of that had to do with the aforementioned DMCA, which protected ISPs and hosting corporations. Like I mentioned above, a lot of the migration from FF.N to LJ (as a place for fanfiction SPECIFICALLY) came when FF.N started banning explicit fanworks. Why? Because FF.N targeted these fanworks based entirely on user reports. “Tell us if you find porn,” FF.N said, “And we’ll take care of it.”Backup real quick. LJ, in many ways, set the standard for online privacy in a way that was far ahead of its time. Friendslocked journals were the norm rather than the exception and many, many communities disallowed anonymous commenting. (I’m not saying LJ wasn’t toxic as fuck, by the way. It is 2017 and let’s all have a moment of acknowledgement for how terrible LJ culture actually could be.) But LJ, on the whole, was much, much better at self-policing than FF.N. On FF.N, all of your stuff was out in the open. It was just there. Anyone could read it, anyone could report it.And these two sites coexisted. All BNFs had a private journal and a public FF.N page. So if I hated someone and I wanted to harass them off the internet, on LJ, I’d have to make multiple sock puppets and concoct elaborate multi-journal ruses to do it on LJ (haha, who would do THAT?). What am I to do? Simple: Head off to FF.N and anonymously flame them there!FF.N became synonymous with anonymous hate long before the anti-smut censorship came down. But once those rules were in place, the system was rife for abuse by the Purity Police or grudgewankers. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before it was cool to dm “kill urself” to someone on tumblr, it was happening on FF.N. All you, the early internet user, had to do was post a report link for your rival’s FF.N account on your LJ. Hate a pairing? A kink? Why not post a scathing rant, link included, to this captive audience of ALL YOUR FRIENDS.Yeah, this system had no room for abuse.So. FF.N opened the door and fandom came rushing through like the raging assholes we are. Certain Fandoms Alluded To Previously got so deeply divided that they split and formed their own fanfiction archives that occasionally rained hate on each other. Everyone else slowly withdrew to LJ, where locked communities offered some level of protection. Then, irony of ironies, fandom as a whole got targeted by the purity wankers. And of course, of course, it came back to Harry Potter. It’s 2007. Things have quieted down since 2001, when certain unnamed people’s fics were targeted for plagiarism and deleted from FF.N even though, just to be clear, they actually were plagiarized and, while there was an element of mob persecution, the actual fact remains that the work in question was legitimately in violation of FF.N’s TOS. Ahem. It’s 2007. And everyone’s fairly chill. Creators are far more comfortable with fanfiction and fan creators are confident in posting their work so long as they aren’t profiting directly from it. Hosting sites, meanwhile, are profiting from fanworks, but they’ve got the legal shield of the DMCA to hide behind, so they’re feeling A-OKAY. And then Warriors for Innocence appears. WfI existed before strikethrough, and they existed after, but they made their mark on fandom when they reported upwards of 500 journals, most of them fan journals and communities, to LJ. The theory runs as follows: 6A, the company who’d bought LJ 2 years prior, realizes that the DMCA didn’t protect them if the fan works in question are “indecent”. Compounding this, 6A is already trying to clean up the famdomier aspects of LJ. Either they’re looking for a sale, or sites like ONTD are bringing in massive amounts of hits. WfI brings 6A a perfect hit list, and 6A goes to work.So one morning we all wake up and find that hundreds of journals, including the pornish_pixies community and several BNF’s personal journals, have been deleted. Literally gone: a lot of the media stored on these communities has been purged forever. Hope you had backups. Also gone: large swaths of the Pretty Gothic Lolita community, Lolita book discussion groups, and rape survivor communities. 

In a quest to rid LJ of “pedophilia,” 6A wiped out a large swath of ethically questionable fanfic, and woke a beast. Again: We like our porn. 6A took a step back and restored some of the deleted journals, but the damage had been done. AO3 was already being discussed as a response to Fanlib, a hosting site that wanted to charge for access to fanfiction. (Yes, if you’ve been following along, that was a terrible idea. But that’s a post for another day.) But as AO3 began to change and grow, creators specifically wrote provisions into the TOS that guaranteed a strikethrough-esque event could never happen on the site. A specific kink or pairing would never be considered a violation of the TOS. The onus was on the reader, not the author, to protect themselves with the information given. Basically, AO3 took the early fandom nugget “Don’t like, don’t read” and made it policy. When peole say AO3 grew out of Livejournal, they’re specifically referencing this. One event that proved ALL OF OUR LONGSEATED FEARS WERE TRUUUUUUUUUE.Rising from the ashes of LJ, you also had Dreamwidth. I’m actually kind of surprised DW wasn’t mentioned in the OP, since it grew out of the same ideology as AO3. Run by fans, for fans, because LJ (which at this point had been sold to SUP Media) had no idea what it was doing. Also like AO3, DW went to extreme lengths to make a safe fan culture inherent to the structure the site. Stay within the law, and DW and AO3 will back you up.It’s worth noting that Tumblr actually predates Strikethrough. But Tumblr, unlike DW and AO3, wasn’t designed for fans. It didn’t carry the legacy of Strikethrough with it the way AO3 and DW did. So I guess– I have no evidence, but I’m surmising – that’s how it fell into the role of Natural Successor to Fanfic.net and Livejournal. It’s kind of inevitable, actually, that since neither LJ nor Tumblr was made for fans, they ended up falling into the same black hole of fandom collision. Kinkshaming people off the internet for literally as long as there’s been an internet. And then, on the other hand, you’ve got DW and AO3, who’ve watched fandom rip itself apart AT LEAST 3 times and are determined not to let it happen again. DW and AO3: We haven’t cared about the filthy shit you’re into since 2008. That’s it, folks. Fandom mom wrote almost 2k words on early fandom and now she needs a nap.

AO3 was created to be a safe space - for writers

Kids read your fandom history research goddamit.  Here are just a few, and these are not hard to find.  We’re the internet generation - use a search field and read multi-source history checks, okay?  

(almost all of these are linked from my personal reblogs, because i know i won’t change my username meaning the links will always work)

fandom history:

Yes, fic writers were harassed, sued, sent C&D letters - we published underground

Here is Some Fandom ‘Oral History’ for You Guys @copperbadge

The Places Fandom Dwells: A Cautionary Tale @mizstorge - so many must read links - our whole LJ-and-on online history is here

‘Intellislash’ [or ‘Your Fandom Culture of Origin Matters’] @copperbadge

History of Ancient Fanfiction (no really)

We started on Geocities and del.i.cio.us - then Yahoo came…

a brief history of the LJ strikethrough and subsequent fan migration @stardust-rain

Very First Star Trek Fic Published - 1974

What JKR and SMeyer did for fanfic

some good fandom knowledgebase specifics:

bangpaths - when you see slutty!Snape, for example

Squicks and Triggers - not the same thing (multi-thread)

Fandom-wank (what is it)

AO3 says descriptive/story-telling tags are a-okay

all the crap about policing fanficition for any reason:

Fandom and fac can only be a healthy outlet if it stops policing shit - be it taboos, dark sides, gender, orientation, kink, etc. (multi-thread - @televisiontelepath )

“Ship means something you want to see happen.” Bitch, no it don’t.  @pyrebomb 

I’m Done Explaining Why Fanfic is Okay @bookshop & others + links

I think fanfiction is literature and literature, for the most part, is fanfiction, and that anyone that dismisses it simply on the grounds that it’s derivative knows fuck-all about literature and needs to get the hell off my lawn. @inkandcayenne

Foz on Hurt/Comfort fic

Why Do Fangirls Always Make Them Gay?

The Importance of Mary Sue unwinona

random fan history fun reads:

Fangirling after 30 (multi-thread)

Older fans run our Infrastructure (also, 90+ year old author who writes darkwing duck slashfic how awesome is that (multi-thread)

we built this kingdom, motherfuckers, with the trekkie zine housewives before us (multi-thread) older fans fun tories

STRAIGHT DUDES OF THE WORLD [in which @fozmeadows explains the best way to learn about female desire…is to read words written by actual females :D]

On Fanfic & Emotional Continuity (multi-thread)

It’s [never] Just Fanfic

Fanlore

Fan is a Tool Using Animal

my  odds  and  ends  cause  i  have  actually  been  here  a  while 

We made AO3 TO PROTECT WRITERS WHO WERE BEING SUED,AND HARASSED,AND ATTACKED.,you don’t wanna read something? check the tags and move on,that’s YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO YOURSELF,not our responsibility as the writers, as the fanartists,as the vidders,as the content creators of all kinds,ARTISTS MAKE ART,YOU DON’T LIKE THAT PARTICULAR ART? MOVE ALONG. THERE’S PLENTY MORE WHERE THAT CAME FROM.,and for FUCK’S SAKE read the GOD DAMNED TAGS,we the writers TAG OUR SHIT TO HELP YOU KEEP YOURSELF SAFE.

So, I was reading this, and taking notes, and *boom* “Hey, that’s my article!” Thanks!

Why I will fight for AO3 and DW:“Rising from the ashes of LJ, you also had Dreamwidth. I’m actually kind of surprised DW wasn’t mentioned in the OP, since it grew out of the same ideology as AO3. Run by fans, for fans, because LJ (which at this point had been sold to SUP Media) had no idea what it was doing. Also like AO3, DW went to extreme lengths to make a safe fan culture inherent to the structure the site. Stay within the law, and DW and AO3 will back you up.It’s worth noting that Tumblr actually predates Strikethrough. But Tumblr, unlike DW and AO3, wasn’t designed for fans. It didn’t carry the legacy of Strikethrough with it the way AO3 and DW did. So I guess– I have no evidence, but I’m surmising – that’s how it fell into the role of Natural Successor to Fanfic.net and Livejournal. It’s kind of inevitable, actually, that since neither LJ nor Tumblr was made for fans, they ended up falling into the same black hole of fandom collision. Kinkshaming people off the internet for literally as long as there’s been an internet. And then, on the other hand, you’ve got DW and AO3, who’ve watched fandom rip itself apart AT LEAST 3 times and are determined not to let it happen again. DW and AO3: We haven’t cared about the filthy shit you’re into since 2008.” @rapacityinblue

All of this. So much. Don’t get me wrong, I love the aspect of tumblr that allows fans to be critical of source content and fan content alike. I think we should talk about the issues with things like incest ships and ships with large age gaps, and why white male villains often end up with massive fanbases while Black heroes end up with much smaller ones, or even with haters. And tons of other issues besides. I think the critical side of fandom is important and endlessly interesting. We should discuss and discourse and argue and meta the hell out of things.

But. The side of tumblr that bullies, doxxes, and harasses anyone who doesn’t fall in line with a person or group’s parameters of acceptable content is disgusting to me. And the calls for some kind of oversight or regulation beyond stuff that’s already illegal are concerning, because as others have said…no one calling for it seems to be able to articulate who decides this shit, and where lines are drawn. It’s one thing to talk in terms of what you personally will accept, condone, or do. It’s another thing all together to talk about setting overarching policies that large groups of people are held to.

(Under the cut because it’s long)

Keep reading

“I think we should talk about the issues with things like incest ships and ships with large age gaps”

Okay, I… actually disagree with this.  And I know you’re not trying to argue they should be banned on AO3 or anything and that wasn’t the point of your comment, but I really want to respond to this specifically. 

Because the thing is, I do not know a single person who ships incest or abusive ships, or even minor/adult ships who doesn’t realize that in real life these things are harmful and abusive. (age gaps are… well that’s a whole other thing bc what do you even MEAN by large age gaps? Someone who’s 80 dating someone who’s 50 is not the same as someone’ who’s 19 dating someone who’s 25, but the age gap is bigger in the former. So that’s it’s own fucking thing and I don’t think it should automatically get lumped in with other obviously-abusive types of ships).  Those people who take it into real life were doing that regardless of shipping or fandom, and it’s not about them shipping a “bad” ship it’s about them already being that kind of person.

Saying “we should talk about the issues with these ships” is essentially making a judgement call on the morality of a person’s shipping of fictional people and dynamics that I have never seen reflect a desire to see those things happen with real people.  I have shipped, fictionally, a 19-20yo with a 35yo.  In real life that would be so suspect and almost certainly unhealthy and likely abusive, but in fiction it’s fictional, it’s two characters who I think have an interesting dynamic.  I have, yes, shipped incest ships.  In real life they would almost certainly be abusive or at minimum deeply unhealthily codependent, and to be fair I often shipped them as deeply codependent, but like, I would never want these things to happen to real people? If they were real people I would be horrified. 

But to me that’s like… no different than enjoying a film or a book or a fic or tv show that has copious amounts of violence and murder.  Obviously irl I don’t support those things?  But in fiction it can be interesting and even fun to explore.  BECAUSE IT’S FICTION, because it’s not real and I am not limited to only enjoying media that I believe would be right and moral and acceptable in real life.  I love watching horror movies.  Scream is one of my favorites - but that doesn’t mean I approve of murder?

So like, if we notice actual young people coming in and supporting these kinds of things (ships or literally anything else that is fun in fiction but horrible outside of it) in real life, yeah maybe we should stop and say “hey you know that irl these things are NOT GOOD, right?” but that’s not an issue fandom has ever struggled with, because by the time they’re old enough to be in fandom spaces, teens know the difference between fiction and reality, and usually know the difference between right and wrong and what isn’t acceptable or right irl even if it’s done in their favorite movie.

So saying “We should talk about the issues with these ships” is essentially a straw man, because there is no large scale problem with these things being seen as unproblematic if they happened in real life, and that’s just feeding in to all the really gross purity culture bullshit that you find all over tumblr, that’s directly descended, ideologically, from the shit that caused strikethrough.  That’s like saying to Hannibal fandom that “we should talk about the issues with murder and cannibalism” as if the Hannibal fandom doesn’t know that these are things that aren’t to be celebrated or done in real life.  As if there’s people in the fandom who go “but we like Hannibal and he murders and cannibalizes, so it must be okay!”

We don’t actually have to talk about those kinds of ships. Because those ships are fictional and the shippers know it, and I think it’s really misguided to bring that kind of sentiment into this discussion.

The thing I’m most tired of in fandom is “Can we just talk about…?”

Here’s the thing: it’s very, very, very often a cover for “Can I just tell you why your favorite thing is terrible and you should feel terrible for liking it?”

But it’s also: “Well, I ship [overly popular, white, or villain-infested ship], but at least I know it’s problematic! I think it’s important to taaaaalk about these things!”

No. No it’s not. If the content that fandom puts out sucks, then what is important is to make other content.

If other people post too much incest porn, write some plotty gen or some vanilla porn or whatever it is you think should be more common to drown it out.

If a ship is baaaaaad and should have less content, then stop talking about it. Don’t give it space in your brain or your social media.

Every time I see people boo-hooing about these kinds of topics, I wonder if they’ve noticed the big chunks of fandom that only like gen or stan a character of color or write epic fics about OFCs or whatthefuckever. All of those people are putting their money where their mouth is and making fandom more about the thing they like.

“We should talk about” is a pretense of responsibility. But it’s actually the opposite.

That and at the end of the day… People often use fandom and fanfiction as escapism. They’re trying to escape the realities and consequences of real life. And this isn’t even a bad thing

One big thing mentioned in this discussion is that harassment always existed in Fandom, and I agree.

But it’s not really the same type of harassment I think. What Tumblr, and now as extension Twitter, bred in fan communities is a particular brand of harassment.

People that flamed and harassed on FFN wouldn’t use the language of social justice and mislead studies to justify why the thing you like is wrong or bad. They’d just shit on you.

I mean compare an old school ship war to a new one. The modern shop War, using Voltron as example, has a focus on explaining why one ship is abusive/incestuous/problematic while the other is pure and good representation and wholesome. Back in the old days it was just people flailing about in inarticulate anger.

And by that token, it makes the modern incarnation worse. If you’re an abuse survivor, and you’re young and impressionable, when someone you really like or look up to in a fandom and says “You’re hurting real people. Your fiction is fuel for abusers. You’re supporting the abusers you hate with the fiction you like” it strikes an uncomfortable chord.

It’s harder to just ignore as someone shouting bullshit because… Oh God I don’t wanna hurt people! I don’t want people to go through what I have!

And so, abusers and entitled people have used the language of the abused to stifle them. It’s so much more psychologically complex now.

And I really want to know where the fuck that came from? How did Fandom develop like this?

AO3 is a safe place for writers

Fanfiction . net is a safe place for advertisers

That’s the difference

Can we go back to the old days of ship wars being people flailing about in inarticulate anger? That sounds like paradise compared to now.

12 hours ago

every time I see more of the ‘ao3 is evil’ crap circulating I think, ‘well, tumblr is evil too and I don’t see you stop using...

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Komaru Naegi from Danganronpa Another Episode: Ultra Despair Girls  god, you would not believe the amount of trial and error it...
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12 hours ago

Komaru Naegi from Danganronpa Another Episode: Ultra Despair Girls god, you would not believe the amount of trial and error it...

13 hours ago

youtube. com /watch?v=V2n6C9YlqtQ